So it's okay to call someone a pedophile now?

But it is debatable whether or not he has to ride the bus.

Curiously, I don't believe you ever have told me that. In your zealous pursuit of others, you've skipped over me somehow.

I agree.

You have put your finger on the unfortunate side of WordForge.

You will notice, however, if you look at it carefully, that that only involves about a dozen posters, about equally divided between left and right where politics are concerned. Some of them do actually get involved in serious discussions sometimes, but also find it amusing to troll. Others hardly do anything but troll.

Ignoring them will not make them go away, but it does keep you from being particularly targeted by it. You'll get hit by the occasional firebomb, but not in a regular way.

I am a big defender of free speech, having seen that people can't speak their mind openly on the controversial issues that make the Red Room interesting unless the rules also allow pretty much unlimited trolling and flaming. This is the unfortunate downside of it, and has been there since before we all left TrekBBS's "Neutral Zone."

WordForge would be much more interesting if that childishness wasn't there, but I really can't think of any way to keep what is interesting without allowing that kind of behavior as well. So putting up with it is just part of being able to discuss controversial subjects as openly as we do.

​

I'm a little surprised that you'd be in favor of bringing that rule back.



I thought you generally preferred a rule-free board?

I find that decency is frequently counterproductive in the Red Room. It's certainly not returned. I'll also admit that I find nothing at all decent about dressing up an obnoxious opinion or obnoxious disregard for reality in polite language, and I don't see much reason to treat such posts differently than I treat a typical tasvir post. It's inherently indecent to run around proclaiming at the top of your lungs that the sky is never blue or that it's self-defense to shoot unarmed and subdued people in the back if they happen to be trespassing, no matter what language you use to say it.

Yes, it's much easier, as some would attest, to just tell the people who disagree with you to fuck off and call them a troll when they can't find the links to back up their false accusation. Spectacular stuff!


The problems have been here since we've started, and it's a byproduct of boredom and slow news days. If a big news event came along, I'm sure things would pick up again.

So now that the question has been asked and answered, can this thread be moved to the Red Room, where it will take its natural course (everyone in it accusing everyone else in it of being a pedophile)?

Interesting insights, to touch on a few of your key points, correct me if I am wrong:

In essence Wordforge (GREAT name by the way, invites all kinds of metaphors and imagery and was what got me to click on the link originally) was created by an exodus of members at TBBS in reaction to overreaching or heavy-handed moderation at TBBS and by members who felt that freedom of speech and expression weren't really tolerated so they created a place where basically all forms of free speech are encouraged and as with all free speech forums you get the good with the bad?

Wordforge is basically a true cross section of society at large then with all levels of interest and participation ranging from earnest dialogue on politics and many other subjects to outright trolling just for the sake of trolling on a slow news day?

Over the years certain groups or posters have become entrenched in their points of view and like people who are locked in a room with each other for too long often resort to name calling and hair pulling due to boredom and the need for entertainment?

The "forge" aspect of Wordforge seems to me as a new poster and an outsider to be basically a trial by fire where you "forge" or form your points of view on different issues and then withstand a certain amount of "fire" or tempering backing up those ideas in open debate or argument?

Hmmm...What an interesting place you all have created in this corner of the internet!

What drove me to post after lurking in the background for a while was the no holds barred approach when you guys respond to each other with sharp, intelligent comments which in some cases had me literally laughing out loud and literally in tears a few times I was laughing so hard! The pettiness and base trolling stuff no so much.

And another really long post from myself, this place really can drive somebody to be overly verbose it seems or is it just me? I will try to trim my posts down a bit in the future so people don't get a headache reading them!

It's just you. No one else here would ever do that.

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Pfft.

I've done far more stupid things.

That may not have been the original intent behind the naming of this place, but that's a damn good assessment of what the name "means" now.

I've never been for a rule free board.

A rule free board is what TK is.

I've been for a board with rules that aren't overly restrictive of posters. My biggest beef isn't the rules of Wordforge as they stand now but the mods who continually screw up. Like El Chup just recently. Or Linda R. when she decided to give Megatron a warning for breaking the pedo rule when there was no pedo rule.

I believe that the pedo rule should have never been removed. It should be brought back.

To add to what I wrote before: there's nothing more frustrating at wordforge than to write a polite, thoughtful response in a thread of some contention, only to have one line ripped out of the context of your post and responded to derisively, (but with polite language!) or with questions that make it clear that the rest of your post was either never read or was deliberately ignored, or with questions that are based in such extreme denial of reality that there's no polite way to respond on point to them. I find that that's a much more common response here to polite thoughtfulness than is the response of being met with polite thoughtfulness, and it's a response type that isn't even close to limited to the board trolls. Maybe 3/4 of the time a "polite" response to a decent and thoughtful post in a contentious thread is either malicious, avoids the substance of your post, or repeats mindless talking points that have nothing to do with reality and, frankly, I think that's a conservative estimate of the prevalence of faux polite in the Red Room.

Let's leave the flaming out of the Help Desk.

Wordforge was originally created by Cassandra/Aurora/Martok's Sweetheart's brother as a creative discussion place - for writers and artists and like that, but mostly writers. Hence the name "Wordforge".

When the management of TrekBBS went suddenly and massively idiotic on us several years ago, in essence ruining and then eliminating the Neutral Zone, which had been our clubhouse, Cassandra offered us a forum over here, at what was at the time a new, little-used BBS. That forum became the Red Room, and with the mass exodus from TrekBBS, the Red Room very quickly became the focus of the whole board.

Most of the original crew wanted a rules-light space to talk/debate/fling poo. The Red Room was set up to be that. But, as usually happens, once the gang got what they said they wanted, it turned out that they didn't really want it. They wanted rules that they agreed with which unfortunately turned out to be different rules depending on who you asked. They wanted "free speech", but only if it was speech they approved of. And there's a small subset of users here whose sole purpose is to complain about anything the staff does in as creative a manner as they can think of. In other words, it's like every other BBS you could name.

Originally the site was hosted on a German (or Austrian?) server, which meant that German (or Austrian?) laws applied as far as content - we couldn't display nazi stuff, for example, because that's illegal in those countries. Then ownership changed and the site was hosted elsewhere. Some of the rules changed based on that. Now that I own the place, it's hosted on an American server, and American laws apply - no kiddie porn, for one. I also had to add the rule against explicit porn in general, since I can't own a site that hosts that sort of content and keep my job. Other than that, I have tried to keep the rules as minimal and open as possible, at least in the Red and Gray rooms. The other fora, tho, are still moderated with a very light touch, except for the Blue Room. And still there's complaints. Some of you act like you want Troll Kingdom Mk II over here, but most of you probably don't. Some of you are determined to maintain a persona that's as juvenile and abrasive as possible. That's fine, but don't come crying to me when you get bashed right back.

If you want relatively open rules, then the price is putting up with stuff you might not necessarily like. Neither I nor anyone else on staff is going to protect your delicate sensibilities at the expense of everyone else. That's one of the main reasons that TrekBBS became such a mess. There are a few (very few) things I won't tolerate, like rampant racism, and those fall under the "judgement of the staff" caveat of our rules. And even then you're more likely to get a "knock it off" PM before anything more substantial is done.

I know that saying "play nice" is kinda futile. So I'd say "be aware that this place is what you make it" instead.

Trolling is fun.

But, there is a limit. There shouldn't be any rules for it, but involving someone's mother, or calling someone a 'nigger'(yes, you Megatron).....is stupid.

I do wonder why Garamet would start this thread when worse shit has been said between WF members for a lot longer.

Un-fuckin'-believable...



Garamet, are you serious? Are you really in the HD bitching about Liet being called a pedo knowing the kind of bullshit he's being saying lately? That's sad. Your running to his defense is almost motherly.

And before you even think of playing the "I'm asking for clarification" card, don't.

You wouldn't be asking this question if the tags were about Dayton, or Shep. But Liet?... well, he's one of yours.

Go ahead and hitch your wagon to that train wreck.

Sorry, Garamet, but I gotta agree with Sokar on this one. Liet's been saying some really nasty stuff himself - regardless of who started it.

Why so personal Sokar?

Surely you didn't write these yourself, that would be too ingenious of a troll.

Are you trying asking me if I wrote them?

No, I didn't.

Typing the same things we say in posts but in tags instead is ingenious?

No, I'm implying you couldn't have.

Whichever makes you happy, Chris. Either way, it doesn't have shit to do with the topic.

To reiterate:

And, yes, I'd have started this no matter who the target was.

Once upon a time, accusations of pedophilia were not allowed in the Red Room. This thread has served its purpose, in confirming that in addition to to all the other poo-flinging, this one's

Eventually the entire dialogue in the RR will consist of

"Die in a fire."

"Your moms."

It's childish, and I'm not applauding any of it. Having said that, I didn't realize it was incumbent upon me personally to start an HD thread every time I encountered it. Perhaps someone can show me where that's written down.

In the interim, I'll continue to observe as yet another well-intended human project deteriorates to the lowest common denominator.

Don't get me wrong. I don't think it's "cool" at all. But, if I was slinging poo, I wouldn't expect to be exempt from it being slung back at me.

Ted would have loved this thread...

Bingo. Same problem at TrekBBS in TNZ. Damned if I know the solution.

You can't satisfy everyone. You can't even necessarily satisfy most people. Bu so long as the rule set isn't completely absurd and is seen to be applied fairly, you'll end up with a crowd that mostly tolerates the rules and tries to make them work, even if the rules aren't people's preferred rules. The shit hits the fan when the rules are unworkable, the rules punish responders to flaming/trolling without punishing instigators, or the staff is rightly or wrongly seen as playing favorites.

How would you know? I've yet to see you take the time and effort to make a careful, thoughtful post that didn't wind up involving nasty rhetoric like "right-wing nutjob", "bugfuck insane Conservative" or the like.

He used to do it all the time, up until shortly after he had his rep set to max red. After that, he just stopped trying to be decent.


I assume he got tired of playing nice with people who weren't willing to return the favour. That's what the Red Room seems to do to some people.

I've been here much longer than you have, and I promise you that from day one Liet was not interested in playing nice with anyone.

One thing I don't understand:

Why don't more people use the ignore feature? I remember when Storm and Jeriko were driving Cassandra batty, to the point where she wanted to leave. I sent her a PM and asked her if they were such a source of irritation, why doesn't she just put them on ignore? Later that night, she posted a comment in the Red Room saying she now had Storm on ignore. Cassandra seemed much happier about it for awhile, and she would've avoided her ban if she had put KIRK1ADM on ignore too.

I'll just say what I told Cass - if they are a source of so much irritation for you, put them on ignore and see how it goes for a week. If someone is being a douchebag and calling people racist names or whatever, you have the option to ban them from your forum view.

Personally, I don't think there is anything wrong with doing that if you feel sad by reading their posts. It's the highly cowardly act of some people putting others on ignore and then taking shots at them, then being afraid of reading what they'll say in response that makes everyone disrespect them.

Now please stop complaining about how rough the Red Room is getting when you clearly have to tools to avoid having your feelings hurt.