The implosion of the Democratic Party thread

I love how the pussy bitches keep trying to re-assert themselves as macho badasses by just screaming louder and using naughtier cusswords.
Doesn't work that way, fellas.
*Cough*UA*cough*

France built 56 nuclear plants in 15 years, at an average of 6 years from breaking ground to commission. Surely we can do as well as that on a smaller scale if the political will is there. The IAEA’s figures agree: 71 months for 800 MW + 8 months per 100 additional MW. That’s far from too long-term to be useful.

Edit: we could replace the 5 largest coal plants in the US with the same number of reactors at the same sizes in under 6.8 years at that rate, with several reactors coming online even sooner than that, saving 85.9 million tons of CO2/year.

What's your definition of fascism?

Something, something, Nancy Pelosi!!

Sorry I’m not playing the definition game.

It's not gaslighting to tell an irresponsible, selfish twat that they're being an irresponsible, selfish twat.

France has a strong central government and no fossil fuel.

Then given the many wide and varied definitions your statements on it are as hollow as your attribution of everything to communism.

If I thought that would work I'd sign on to it, but the current state of affairs indicates tribalism and ignorant reactionary choices are stronger than that.

The propaganda has gone on for generations, and it goes on because it persistently works. The country is 1/3 authoritarian, 1/3 progressive. and 1/3 ignorant as fuck. (not to say there's no ignorance in the other 2/3)

I'm not spitting on your argument or even particularly disputing it, I just think we're fucked as far as the country we've been living in. The diagnosis is terminal, only the specific time of death remains to be seen.

O Rly? I'd ask for examples but I muted your profoundly stupid ass months ago (it's been quite pleasant!) and I don't want to let that go in order to see whatever ridiculous bullshit you think justifies your opinions.

He sure as fuck doesn't understand what libertarianism claims to be either.

Anyone, at any level of education or power, who seriously, without irony, attributes literally ANY aspect of American life to the influance of Communism demonstrates themselves too profoundly brainwashed (or stupid) to be heard on even the most trivial topic. I mean, 90% of the invocations of "Socialism!" are as deeply ill-informed but one can credibly argue that social democracy has SOME lose, limited, relationship with actual socialism (if one stays off the slippery slope arguments) but COMMUNISM???

The only response to that is to point and laugh

That is some convoluted shit right there. It is not going to work if you think it through. Again, why would the right vote for a dem to do all of that shit when they have the republican who they can rely on to do all of that shit? Let us say I am an anti-abortion lover. So I could vote for the republican who is pretty secure in being anti-abortion, or I could vote for the dem who is saying he is anti-abortion, but it really looks like he is just trying to get votes by saying that. Why would I vote for the dem? Then you are going to lose the messaging game because the republican can always out right the left. On top of that you are turning off your own voters and driving them to a third party or not vote for you.

How is this going to work? Just switch to republican and undermine their party from within if that is what you plan on doing. If you are going to switch sides anyways, then you primary republicans on their own turf and undermine their voting. You drain their funds and support and split their party. If you are going to be some double agent bastard like that you do it on the enemy's turf. Do not fuck your position.

Are you actually high? I know wasted logic and this is wasted logic. This is not how manipulating groups works. Also, the republican voters are the abusers. They vote someone in to abuse others. If they vote you in and you do not abuse others for them then you will be replaced with someone who does. The dem would have to out abuse the reps just to get the votes, and that is still abuse.

Normally you make good sense, but what the fuck did you just try and say? That is some convoluted fantasy bullshit right there. The mechanics of your logic are something I would say when really fucking high. I get the logic path that you are saying, but the point are fucked and the path does not work that way.

I have been caught up in a few of these when thinking about humans and the way they behave and you want to pull that shit apart again and put it back together again. You are a smart dude, and somewhere in your processing an error has occurred. I am just guessing that it is part of the basic idea and you need to reform it.

Just a couple basic things.

Your basic trump republican is an abuser. It is a core part of racism, prejudice, and the hard tribalism they love. Up until trump I would have been with you, but trump is an abuser. Every person who voted for trump voted for an abuser. Even his competition within the party is abusive. The days of the decent republican are gone. If there are some non-abusers there they are so hopelessly oblivious you are not going to get them anyway.

The second thing I have to say is if you are correct, the best thing overall to do would be to actually have the dem right jump over to the republican right and start some actual bipartisanship. Run some ideological candidates in the republican realm who would not march lock step with the radical right. If soft republicans do exist then you should try to sift out the radical right from that party instead of trying to make them dems by changing the dems to the old republican party.

You may be good at science, but you do not really seem to understand people.

Most scientists don’t understand people.

Most libertarians don't understand science, people, or even liberty, and you are like most libertarians. So you might want to sit down and listen.

Liberty is where I devour everything, and everyone else can just go die.
How does anyone else have liberty?
How do I have liberty if everyone else is destroyed?
Look, don't make me do math, okay?

So I suggested in post 574. Try to keep up. But the Democrats have only recently become at all an ideological party so a swing right wouldn’t be that out of character either.

yeah that seems better for 2 years while democracy is shored up than allowing a fascist dictatorship to rise. Because once that happens, it’s game over. It’s not a GOOD option, but it’s better than the alternative.

That seems like a stretch, doesn’t really match up with the statistics. At least as many people voted for Trump because he wasn’t Clinton or wasn’t Biden as because he was Trump.

So I said, although I think it has to be an entirely new crop of Republicans, at least at the national level, to do it. There’s no sifting to be done. We already know who needs to go among national Republicans, nearly all of them.

And yet I’m 40 posts ahead of you.

Don't the Democrats have a bigger tent than the Republicans? That makes it hard to manage any sort of shift from the top down.

Historically, for sure. Now, I think they can probably get away with it. They're more nationalized than they ever have been before, and that's a real thing. You can't get elected as a Democrat (or Republican, for that matter) without specific signals that you conform to the national party platform, including elements that have nothing to do with the office you're running for. Why does a county supervisor or tax assessor have to be pro-choice? No reason, except that the party won't support you if you don't declare yourself so.

It doesn't help but it's not impossible IMO. We've been pulling further and further right since Reagan and only in the last five to ten years has there been a push to say "no more."

I mean, no one needs to look any further than how Obama copied Romney's health care plan almost verbatim from Massachusetts in a vain attempt to get the GOP onboard.

They're clearly not arguing in any good faith and it's time we stopped pretending that they are.

Total Fina Elf is one of the four global ‘super majors’.

Years ago the kid laid out his understanding of fascism.

Fascism is bad.
His parents are good.
Therefor nothing his parents believe could be considered fascist.

He marked this as dumb, so let's revisit:

That's nice. France has no fossil fuels to extract, they import all their oil. I'm sure Total is busy refining other countries' oil for use in France and elsewhere.

This is the reason France embraced nuclear early on. It was strategic security, both economically and militarily.

Does Belgium still have five nuclear plants on its borders?

I’ll tell you what, you tell me what you think Trump did that you think is fascist and I’ll tell if I disagree with it or not. Leave my family out of it though.

So you don't actually disagree with this statement?

Your objection to that statement seemed to the concept not any particular instance. Are you now agreeing that if friends or family were ok with fascism it would be valid to call them fascist?

Anything that made Storm Rucker happy ought to be carefully re-examined.

His disrespect for democracy is a sign.

So were his bromances with autocratic leaders.

Racism is a tell.