The implosion of the Democratic Party thread

Also, he's not a Republican.

Twenty years ago, he could have been. But now, any Republican who held Manchin's policy positions would be labeled a RINO (and probably censured by his state party for failing to lick Trump's taint).

Calling Manchin or Sinema a Republican only helps paper over the truth about what the GQP has become.

Can I call Sinema a paid plant, then?

Manchin has a legit lunatic fringe to appease, but Simena is a weasel who marketed herself as a progressive cool kid and then turned face once her literal fascist opponent had been trounced

I'd follow the money on both, to be quite honest. I don't expect every Democrat to be Bernie Sanders, but I do expect them to argue in good faith.

My feeling about Sinema is that she's playing a role, and that she's gotten so invested in the role that she can't remember anything else.

But also, my inclination is not to primary her and risk the seat, but rather to try to flip Pennsylvania and North Carolina, thus making her irrelevant ... then she can go do her maverick act and nobody will care.

There's a bill, or rather an outline, $1.8 Trillion that Manchin has said "this I'll vote for" that includes many of the BBB items, but funded for 10 years (in cutting BBB in half the progressives had shortened the time frame rather than drop items) BUT his checklist, which Dems would otherwise rush to the floor, doesn't include an extension of CTC which the perceive as a self-inflicted gutshot.

So the continuing talks is how to get him to agree to something that avoid that political suicide.

Adam Jentilson pointed out that even a relatively cheap six month extension would be a better situation as they could keep talking and maybe tailor the next reconciliation bill in '22 to include in (someone else mentioned the idea of a less expansive bill styled the "Families Act" for the next reconciliation and put longer term CTC in that)

MY entirely unimportant view is that there's nothing magic about 10 years. Do the stuff Manchin will vote for at EIGHT years - gets you through two full presidential terms and whatever party holds sway in 2029 gets to either extend or kill, and take the political heat.

Then use the saving to do CTC for TWO years, or even 18 months (which would be 2 years of the program in all) which carries them beyond the mid-terms and if Manchin wants it dead, and the Republicans take the House in '22, he can relax while Republicans take the blame for killing it. If Dems somehow cling to the majority, well, he can fight about it then if he wants to knowing he has his own re-election on the horizon.

Oh I would persuade Ruben Gallego to go after her. Polling shows Dems in AZ do NOT want her and Republicans are not going to show their appreciation. We're stuck with Manchin but not her.

But yes, and also, Win NC, PA, WI, maybe FL, and put some effort into Ohio if they nominate a lunatic like Mandel.

My thinking is that it's a mistake to speak of "Liberal" and "moderate" Democrats.

The party, in Congress and presumably elsewhere, is made up of CONSERVATIVES (Manchin, Tester, Krlly maybe, Hickenlooper? a couple of others who hide it better), Center-left whom you may wish to call "liberals" (everyone from pathetic old Feinstein to, say, Maggie Hassan and Michael Bennet - the majority of the Dem Senate caucus) and Progressives (not all in exactly the same place but all to the left of the centrist bunch - Ranging from Murphy and Schatz and Wyden through many of the more visible folks out to Sanders)

Trying to describe this diversity of positions with a binary is a disservice.

Speaking of the demise of the Democrats, a LOT of their difficulty isn't of their own making.

Consider, 6-8 weeks ago it was ALL "Gas prices out of control! Blame Biden!" and "Is Biden inflation getting out of hand?!1" and this in so-called mainstream media (CNN's ridiculous milk story for example)

Now, gas prices are down significantly, unemployment KEEPS dropping and is beyond historic lows, economic growth has been again revised upward and while inflation is still a thing, for now, all the stuff he's pushing for will work to save most household significantly on daily cost of living (drug prices, child care, and so forth)

Compare the widespread absence of mainstream media stories saying "Gosh! The Biden Boom has no end in sight!" to all the negative stories about gas prices alone.

Or consider, this is the first Christmas in 20 goddamn years without significant troop presence in Afghanistan and a need for a president to "visit our troops fighting for liberty" or whatever jingoistic bullshit. Are all the "bungled withdrawal!" outlets from August running stories about great Christmas at home? Are ANY of them?

The Dems certainly could have spent the last 20 years trying to create, if it's even possible, their counterweight to Fox and the rest of the right wing media echo-chamber (pro-tip: the reason all that exists are mega rich right wing assholes willing to lose money to create and sustain it for their own political goals, not because the country has such an appetite for it - and there are no, or not enough, progressive billionaires willing to invest the same resources to counter them) but even if we assume the Bullshit Machine is a fact of life....

THEY STILL HAVE TO LIVE WITH THE LEGACY MEDIA WHO SPEND ALL THEIR TIME THINKING "HOW CAN WE PROVE TO THE RIGHT THAT WE'RE NOT REALLY LIBERAL?"

In terms of outlets that have actual reach, not speaking of, say, Slate or something, there really isn't any such thing as the "liberal media" - hell MSNBC platforms Claire-fucking-McCaskill every damn day.

I'm not sure you CAN message your way over that obstacle.

Yup. The Right has been "working the refs" since Nixon, and it has been more fucking effective than Nixon could have ever dreamed.

I think OH and FL are gone for at least the couple cycles. Put enough money in to keep the local parties operating and keep the Rs honest for spending but they are not top tier races IMO.

Oh Ohio is firmly read unless Republicans piss it away like they did Alabama that one time.

FL isn't so much about winning specifically but that when you have an entirely credible high profile candidate, ACT like you can win it and hope something weird happens.

I don't know where else to put this, so...

AZ Democrats censure Sinema over her refusal to nuke the filibuster (Yahoo/Business Insider)

We can blame Manchin and Sinema all day for the stagnation of the Dem agenda, and we should. But consider that they're just shouldering the negative publicity for what are actually the many Dem senators who don't want any progressive change.

Maybe if the Democrats force these two into line, they can deal with others.

Don't forget Biden and Pelosi in that mix.

And this is why the Democrats are going to lose the Senate in November and maybe, maybe the House. If the Republicans don't take the house, I see the Democratic majority becoming even slimmer. Why? Because the Democrats refuse to, you know, actually DO ANYTHING.

My money's on both chambers flipping.

Fucking Stephen Breyer better retire first.

Just double checking on this @Uncle Albert. I'd hate to cancel my vacation plans, I need to know which cities have been destroyed.

Independence Day has a good list.
Portland survived.

I destroyed Kennesaw. Go there.

Biden apparently forgets that the mic is on.

Is he saying more inflation is a great asset?

Oh no!
This is exactly as bad as Trump on tape saying he grabs pussies!
Or on video encouraging racist violence at his rallies.
Oh, wait, no.

I think he's being sarcastic. Such sharp comments seem to to counter the "he's not mentally there" narrative.

Did anyone say that? Oh they didn't, shut the fuck up then.

I honestly couldn't tell if he was being serious or not.

I was heading them off at the pass.

Never.

John McCain had similar thoughts about Doocy

He’s not wrong.