Dumbass brings a knife to a gunfight. Cops kill him. Public outraged.

Here ya' go, UA.

So much for "ConfederateDunce, Defender of Arabs".


While we're at it, though, let's not leave out African Americans, too.

[?=ConfederateRetardedGerbilFucker just got.....][/?]

sorry for the size, but that's the interior of a streetcar.
there's not much room for swinging a knife in there.

Looks like problem solved. Moral of the story: DO NOT PULL A KNIFE ON SOMEONE, ESPECIALLY COPS!

Like we really need CS to admit that.

How much room do you need to stab somebody?

This pic makes it look big enough to have a dance marathon.

honestly?
a lot if you want to be successful at it.
that corridor is about 29" across and those poles are a little closer. There's no room for anything but a forward thrusting motion. That also means there's no real place to go if you're rushed.

I'm not saying the cop who shot was in the right but your claim that one can't swing a knife in there is ludicrous.

Is that an old PCC streetcar? Is anyone still running those?

I'll say the cop who shot was in the right. And that's rare for me, because most of the time, cops firing off their guns like Mexicans at Cinco De Mayo is wrong and fuckin' stupid. But in this case, it was right. Cramped area, freako swinging a knife around, that shit has to be put a stop to, immediately.

I would rather an armed civilian had done it rather than a power-mad jackbooted thug, but as long as it got done and the freako got shut down, I won't spend too much agitation on who it was that shut him down.

Except no one including the cop was on the car with the knife guy.

Why not taser him first?

Why not hit him with OC spray first?

The cops are in no real danger unless you jumps off the car and rushes them.

I'm just saying that the lead cop there should have run things a little better.

Because fuck him, that's why. You don't get to plan on surviving the day you get stabby.

Because neither of those methods absolutely ensures an end to the aggression of the aggressor. You gotta go Mal Reynolds vs. The Operative on that shit, shoot and keep shooting until that mother fucker is down, and not just down but not getting back up.

Here's the basic: Aggressor < innocent people. Every time. Every single time. You pump that mother fucker full of lead, and you keep adding lead until that piece of shit is no longer in any condition to get back up and continue to pursue violence against innocent people.

so you just agreed with me.

anyways, swing. no, there isn't a full arm's radius anywhere in there without hitting a vertical pole. cornered in the rear of the car, the only option is forward stabbing. Against a full sized cop with a night stick and a vest on with a 4" blade? Nightstick wins, easy.

Hell, anyone with a leather jacket coudl have disarmed that idiot.

Well we'll be sure to call you in the next time there's a psychopath with a knife, 'turk'.

"There's not room for anything but stabbing."

You know what the USMC teaches as the primary attack in knife fighting (or did in the late '90s)? Stabbing.

You know what the Roman short sword was designed for? Stabbing.

You know what the sole attack is in traditional fencing? Stabbing.

Stabbing is the most effective way to fight with a knife. And a narrow aisle is ideal for a stabbing weapon. There is only one way to get at you and any approach can be met with the knife.

And while "bullet-proof" is a misnomer, they certainly don't call them "knife-proof vests". In fact unless protective vest technology is hugely advanced (which I'll allow it may be) a "bullet-proof" vest is largely useless against a knife or an arrow. (Speaking of which, you know what kind of damage an arrow uses to kill even big game like bears? Puncture (essentially stabbing).

So you're saying a cop should get into the car--and lets face it, because of the cramped layout you can only have one cop in there--another advantage for the bad guy of the "cramped" car, burdened down with a protective vest, and using a nightstick--a swinging, not stabbing weapon in an environment you've already pointed out is terrible for swinging.

Yeah. I won't be going to you for any tactical advice anytime soon.

Maybe you can volunteer and show them how it's done next time.

-Volpone

True dat! And a simple, thin, but extremely sharp arrow head (or knife) can get that extra penetration depth that turns a minor wound into a show-stopper. Also it takes less force (due to less friction) for a thin sharp arrow-head/knife to kill quickly. Thus a skinny kid with a shaving-sharp long Rapala filet knife (just like most of us have used and hand-sharpened all our lives) will end your life faster and with less pain than a big drunk clod slashing at you with a butcher knife.
Ideally, the deadliest knives are thin enough to go between ribs, long and sharp enough to get complete penetration of the vitals, and of course sharp enough to not allow blood clotting once the body starts reacting to being punctured.

It's not unheard of to shoot a big game animal through both lungs and get no reaction other than a curious stare until they collapse 30 seconds later. It happens so fast and cuts so clean (like getting nicked with a razor while shaving) they have no idea of what happened other than a stinging sensation and shortness of breath. A snake bite? A hornet sting? Why am I dizzy? Game over.

uh huh.
and how simple is it to block/deflect a straight thrust against any of those? fairly to very.

no matter. 4" blade isn't much of anything compared to your examples.


no shit about kevlar not being very knife proof. still provides more protection than a t-shirt.

kinda surprised though...I'd have thought you and oldfella would have the self defense skills to competently disarm someone with a pocket knife being military trained and such.

I do.

1) Present firearm.
2) Say "PUT IT FUCKING DOWN NOW!"
3) If Bad Guy does anything other than comply, shoot him twice in the groin and once in the head.

My version is less dicey. Skip straight to Step 3.

I know I do.....but it involves shooting them first. Much easier and safer to disarm them after that. That's why they have us use guns.

so none of you guys could disarm a teenager with a knife short of shooting him?

I'd give it a go. Like you said...if I got my heavy leather jacket....lets dance!

There is a good chance that the dude has not actual experience using a knife. Just like in my experience the majority of people can't street fight(fist fight).

I've seen many mugs talk big shit and they got beat up.

Serious question: Have you?

If you attempt to disarm a knife wielding teenager, you better be prepared to bleed. If you try it in a narrow, cramped space, you better be prepared to die. No one can afford to be as naive as you seem to be.

Now, if I was a cop and had the option of gassing the street car, then sure. But bare hands or even a night stick? No, only an idiot would do something like that.

Could or would? Sorry, I've got a family who needs me. You're the one who pulled a knife, I'd just as soon kill you. Nothing personal or anything.

Probably the only way to avoid shooting would have been if they'd had a canister of tear gas handy so they could toss it in there. Or they could have tried to aerosol some pepper spray in there. Even a tazer with the shooting prongs might have been difficult to use in that situation. And frankly, for all the armchair tacticians here, the cops aren't there to be manly or to fight fair, and they should be under no expectation to take on someone with a knife, which is by definition a deadly weapon.

Holy shit, another thread where Space Turkey gets upset when someone gets the consequences of making a stupid decision. Color me surprised.

Maybe I could disarm a psycho with a knife. Why would I need to? I've got a gun. If they don't value their own life enough to put down the knife when confronted with a gun, why should I value their life over mine?