Dumbass brings a knife to a gunfight. Cops kill him. Public outraged.

You're right about that.

Cops don't and shouldn't fight fair.

But at the same time they should have enough sense to play it right.

See if I'm there the first thing I do is make the Taser attempt. If that fails then we go in shooting. Of course we give the commands to drop the knife and stuff.

A senior officer on the scene or a supervisor should have enough sense to realize that things are probably being taped and that since the department has been accused in the past of being dumb in situations like this that it would work out better if a plan was put into action. That officer should have taken over and directed the other officers.

This isn't an immediate do or die situation where the officers have to act immediately. The guy is on the train by himself. You can hold on an extra five minutes to get everything in place.

If you have to shoot him then you can say we tried talking to him, we tried to taser him and nothing worked except shooting him.

Seems to me that one guy with one of those riot shields could've barricaded the door of the train and they could've then dealt with him at leisure.

The situation just doesn't look to me like one where shooting was the only reasonable option.

I certainly wouldn't ask a cop to go wrestle with a guy armed with a knife, but, at the same time, police officers can't be SO risk averse that deadly force becomes the default response.

Hans Zimmer suddenly has a lot less competition.

Oh

Spoken like someone who's never been the unarmed guy in a knife fight or worked door at a bar.

Get back to me once you've been in a fight.

Or is it that some of you simply believe cops should shoot first, ask questions later?

really wish the rest of your post hadn't gotten chewed....

yeah, he could've hurt anyone who tried to stop him. As Mewa pointed out though, a leather jacket would be more than enough of an equalizer to minimize the risk.

Sounds to me like most of these guys are pussies who couldn't face off without a gun.

Forgive me if I have a hard time taking you seriously. In this thread, you have indicated that a narrow, cramped space is a disadvantage for a knife wielder when knives are ideally suited for exactly that scenario. You seem to think a leather jacket is good armor against a knife despite the fact that it would do nothing to stop a good thrust. Perhaps working door at a bar isn't a good substitute for actual training and experience. No one with sense or training would advocate such a cavalier attitude on the subject of defending oneself from a knife wielding attacker. Your experience dealing with late night drunks at whatever bitch bar you work lends you exactly zero credibility on the subject. Get back to me when you stop advocating foolishness.

All that having been said, I am NOT suggesting police should shoot first and ask questions later. Police have a variety of non-lethal methods that can be employed from a safe distance in a scenario like this.

A leather jacket is an equalizer for a knife? Maybe in the movies it is but not in reality.

No, they're just smart.

What is the homicide rate of Space Turkey's town? In other words any young person with a knife in many American cities (especially Atlanta, Chicago, etc) may very well have already killed/hospitalized a person or two by now - thus might not hesitate in the least to stab your ass repeatedly. Or they weight 250 and will likely overpower you then stab your ass. Just sayin'

are some of you intentionally obtuse? the leather jacket gets used as a shield, not body armour. And working door at bars isn't "good" fight training and experience?
Where do you party? TGIFridays?

The reason I say the guy with
the knife was at a disadvantage is because stabbing is hi ONLY option in that environment. there's no room for slashing or evasive motions.

OldFella-it's Toronto, look up the stats on homicide here yourself.

As an only-option, stabbing is a pretty fucking good option! It's pretty much what knives do.

^Agreed.

that too, obviously.

the point i''ve been trying to get across is that there are fewer potential attacks than there are defenses in that environment. The decisive factor is reach.

In a pinch, a leather jacket is an effective tool to entangle the knife hand with and gives an otherwise unarmed defender that added reach. It isn't armour, it's a shield. That guy that was on the streetcar with a bicycle had the capacity to keep the kid contained with that alone.

Most of the crowd here was like "D'UR!! A leather jacket?? What do I do with it?"

Just forget it. It was clear to me that the question concerned guy with knife and you without a gun. What would or could you do?

They ain't hip, man.

And lets not forget about using your belt.

Yeah, a belt.

You look about as stupid as Batman in your picture, buddy. You don't employ something that could help you survive, possibly, when you have something that will ensure you survive.

See what I'm sayin'.

Come on man, don't dis' the Adam!

belt buckle can bust an eye socket at nearly 6' depending on your waist size and reach. A decent flick will be travelling at a few hundred Mph on impact.

The witness with the bicycle likely had a removable seat post, a U-lock, and the whole gorram bike to fend the knife weilder off with, let alone counter attack.

That's not even considering the fire extinguisher and tool kit located by the driver (if you can get to it, obviously)

You're right about one thing. You employ what you have at hand to survive.

MacGyver could have saved the bus with a paperclip.

so the WF answer to the presence of danger is if you can't shoot it, run?

none of you know how to fight dirty?

There was a discussion about this some years back. Some of us advocated doing what it takes to win, and a bunch of other guys seemed to think the Marques of Queensbury rules should apply in a street fight. Yeah, you're arguing with some of those same guys. Is it any wonder they're compulsive about carrying a gun?

Oh God!! I remember that. You summed it up so well there.

Yo wait....I only fight if I have to. I WILL run. If the guy doesn't chase me, thats perfect.

Actually, this explains quite a bit about some of the positions taken in the Zimmerman case.

What can I say, I've thrown myself i harm's way before, it'll likely happen again. I choose my battles when possible, but sometimes you just act. this incident kind of motivates me to be even more ready to intervene if some kid is being stupid.

It could save his life.

yeah...
sad to say, but it backs what Garamet has taunted them with for so long about their actual capacity for self defense.

WOW! You guys should team up and be a salt & pepper crime-fighting duo.