Keltec May Have Invented the Perfect Defensive Weapon

Fuck, man, somehow I was thinking it was a semi as well (hey, the thread is pretty damn old ).

1) If this thing were a semi at that price point--and was reliable--it would be a fucking steal.
2) KelTec is OK and all, but they aren't a Beretta or a FN or something. Not even a Colt. I don't know that I'd trust my life to a semiauto KelTec scattergun.
3) I still tend to favor a nice pump. I know, rationally, that the new semis are very reliable--and can handle all manner of shells without failure, but I still like the reliability of a pump. If my arm can't work the bolt I've probably got bigger problems than not being able to cycle my shotgun.

Man some people have got terrible memories around here. How could any of you watch the videos and come away a few months later thinking it was a semi-auto and not a pump?

Bringing this old thread up to share some news that has soured me somewhat on this gun...

The article was in Surefire Combat Tactics magazine. (One of those annual/semi-quarterly mags that costs like $8.99 and up) I can't find it online to post here.

The author reviewed the gun and these are the highlights:

#1 The bullpup design unbalances the Shotgun. "Balance gives a shotgun pointability, and pointability is what allows you to shoot a shotgun "without thinking," a magical coordination of gun, eye, and target." Complains that skills learned in using current shotguns won't transfer well to this one and that in a crisis you will revert to your "870" skills. (I'm not sure I buy that one since if you buy this gun you would hopefully practice with it and know what to do. )

#2 The gun has to be manually switched to fire from the second tube of rounds. The author states that it is hard to grasp the "tiny little selector" with your non shooting hand while holding the gun on target. Author says it's more ergonomic to use your shooting hand due to the location of the switch but obviously if the SHTF do you really want to take your shooting hand off the gun?

#3 Single Round Loading. Says it is next to impossible to load a single round into the shotgun. The lifters the move the rounds into the chamber block the entrance to the chamber making loading a single round very difficult. According to the author you have to shove the round very hard, forcing apart the two lifters. Complains that this is difficult and takes too long compared to the speed of doing it in an Remington 870.

#4 Loading the tubes. The tubes are off center of course since there are two of them. Says gun is not ergonomic to load because of the way you have to hold it to get the shells in because the balance of the gun is off. The shells have to be put into the tubes at a slight angle (again because the tubes are off center). Worries what it would be like trying to reload this gun during a gun fight with the way you have to hold it and then maneuver the shells into the gun.

#5 Short-Stroking. We all know that on pump weapons you have to cycle them properly to avoid potential jams. The author states that while short-stroking is "pilot error" and the Remington 870 is not immune to being jammed that Remington has solved the biggest problem that comes from short-stroking: the "dreaded" double feed. Author says that short stroking the Kel-Tec causes a total stoppage that requires tools to fix. The problem is the two lifters. The lifters grab the round trying to leave the chamber while the round trying to feed is prevented. You can't reach inside without prying the lifters apart. The only way to solve this issue is too insert a tool so you can reach past the lifters and push the partially emerged round back into its tube. Then you can wrack the action a second time and clear the fired shell.

#6 Short Stroking Part Two. Author claims weapon is highly susceptible to short stroking because the action is stiff to open and the forend must be gripped well forward close to the muzzle to work properly. (author also is afraid of having the hand so close to the muzzle) So essentially you have to really pump this gun hard to get it not to short stroke.

#7 Comes with no sights. Not a big deal to me. A gun like this would have a red dot put on it IMHO.

#8 No choke constriction. Author didn't mind. Screw in chokes are not an option.

#9 Author went to a friends gun shop (Matt Babb, chief armorer for Long Mountain Outfitters and a nationally recognized small-arms expert according to the article). Friend said short stroking is an issue and he doesn't like Kel-Tec because they are not that reliable. Friend shot the gun from the hip into a bullet trap and it jammed. The shell that was ejecting was not able to leave the gun because the shooters body was blocking the ejection port which on this gun is straight down. Author told friend you're not supposed to shoot it from the hip and the friend replied that this is a close-quarters-combat-weapon. "It's going to be shot from the hip."

I thought this article would be a cheerleading article like most gun articles tend to do but the author pretty much slammed this gun. His final words were: "The hottest gun in America is frigid."

I've been looking at the Remington and Mossberg lines and drooling every time I go into Dick's Sporting Goods. I think after this article I'm going to go with one of them and let Kel-Tec continue to work on this shotgun.

It was in last month's "American Rifleman." They seem to have liked it better and didn't have as many problems with it but agreed that it takes forever to load.

Elwood agrees: If you're going to get an 870, be sure to get an 870 and not an 870 Express.

Why?

If it works it works. Of course this article leaves me with very large doubt about the gun in particular so I'll pass on it.

I can not remember any gun magazine that has given such a review before to a gun. I wasn't expecting what I read. It was quite an eye opener.

The people at Kel-Tec must be pissed.

There's a couple good points in there, and thanks for typing it up, but the vast majority seem to be derivations of "it's new" and "it's not a 870."