Netanyahu: Hitler didn't want to kill any Jews, the Holocaust was all the Palestinians fault.

The word 'democracy' doesn't appear in the EU definition of anti-Semitism. From the European Union Agency for Fundamental Rights (FRA) comes the definition

Working definition: “Antisemitism is a certain perception of Jews, which may be expressed as hatred toward Jews. Rhetorical and physical manifestations of antisemitism are directed toward Jewish or non-Jewish individuals and/or their property, toward Jewish community institutions and religious facilities.”

In addition, such manifestations could also target the state of Israel, conceived as a Jewish collectivity. Antisemitism frequently charges Jews with conspiring to harm humanity, and it is often used to blame Jews for “why things go wrong.” It is expressed in speech, writing, visual forms and action, and employs sinister stereotypes and negative character traits.

Contemporary examples of antisemitism in public life, the media, schools, the workplace, and in the religious sphere could, taking into account the overall context, include, but are not limited to:

• Calling for, aiding, or justifying the killing or harming of Jews in the name of a radical ideology or an extremist view of religion.
• Making mendacious, dehumanizing, demonizing, or stereotypical allegations about Jews as such or the power of Jews as collective — such as, especially but not exclusively, the myth about a world Jewish conspiracy or of Jews controlling the media, economy, government or other societal institutions.
• Accusing Jews as a people of being responsible for real or imagined wrongdoing committed by a single Jewish person or group, or even for acts committed by non-Jews.
• Denying the fact, scope, mechanisms (e.g. gas chambers) or intentionality of the genocide of the Jewish people at the hands of National Socialist Germany and its supporters and accomplices during World War II (the Holocaust).
• Accusing the Jews as a people, or Israel as a state, of inventing or exaggerating the Holocaust.
• Accusing Jewish citizens of being more loyal to Israel, or to the alleged priorities of Jews worldwide, than to the interests of their own nations.

Examples of the ways in which antisemitism manifests itself with regard to the State of Israel taking into account the overall context could include:

• Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g., by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavor.
• Applying double standards by requiring of it a behavior not expected or demanded of any other democratic nation.
• Using the symbols and images associated with classic antisemitism (e.g., claims of Jews killing Jesus or blood libel) to characterize Israel or Israelis.
• Drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis.
• Holding Jews collectively responsible for actions of the state of Israel.

​

Ding ding ding! By the EU definition of anti-Semitism, you're anti-Semitic as hell.

• Applying double standards by requiring of it a behavior not expected or demanded of any other democratic nation.

Ding, ding, ding.

No response; what a surprise.

Please feel free to quote one anti-Semitic thing that I, or anyone else, has said in this thread.

Half of Cyprus is occupied by Turkey, Turkey is a democracy, ergo your claim that no democracy also has occupied territories is a blatant lie. Why are you such a mendacious liar?

I said they didn't use the word "democracy", and they don't.

And yet their point stands. How come Israeli products have to be labeled differently than products from all the occupied areas of the EU?

-Claiming Israel deliberately kills civilians.

-Supporting legal double standards against Israel which other nations in similar situations are not held to.

This has been pointed out over and over and over to you. You keep ignoring those and pretending that people have not pointed them out to you at least a dozen times already. Then you lie and pretend this issue has not been repeatedly brought up.

1) It does not say democracy. This has been quoted to you multiple times but even if it did Turkey is a democracy, occupies half of Cyprus, and is not subject to the same prejudicial regulations. This is a clear double standard targeting Israel.

2) See #1 for an example of your double standards towards Israel.

3) You have done no such thing. You, as always, have done nothing but lie and dodge direct evidence you cannot counter. You are still doing that.

4) Indeed and I have given numerous examples. Please note no where in the EU Working Definition does the word democracy appear. You simply lied and fabricated that part.

5) Turkey is so you are still using a double standard against Israel even if we only count democracies. Which the EU Working Definition does not do.

6) Cyprus is bright green while Israel is light green even by your biased map. You are the one who cannot read a color coded map. It is part of how you constantly lie.

It says democratic nation. What's another name for that? A democracy. This is getting very silly.

And who says Turkey is a democracy, you? You claimed that Morocco and several other non-democratic countries were democracies a few posts back; you have zero credibility on this subject. I have posted a neutral source that ranks countries according to their democratic credentials; Turkey is not a democracy according to them. You insisting that it is changes nothing.

Finally, you actually try to back up your claim; it only took you 6 pages.

How the heck is that anti-Semitic? It's an opinion, backed up with statistics, about the state of Israel's actions. Criticising Israel killing Palestinian civilians is not anti-Semitic. And let's look at the context of that statement. You claimed Hamas targets civilians; I pointed out that Israel kills hundreds of times more Palestinian civilians than the reverse and that therefore it is clear who (i.e. which side) targets civilians.

In general terms I believe that democracies should be held to higher standards; presumably you do too or you wouldn't have omitted the word when you quoted your definition and gave your examples.

Which other situations do you think are similar to the Israel/Palestine situation? Bearing in mind that: 'in Palestine, it is the democratic power that is the aggressor, that has imposed an apartheid system on the Palestinians, that is systematically stealing their land and colonising it.'

I (showing my age here) supported sanctions against apartheid South Africa. I believe the Israel/Palestine situation is similar and therefore would support a similar international approach to it.

And err that's it. Good grief, what piss weak evidence you have. No wonder it took you 6 pages to produce it.

I think part of what has driven people like Inutil to hate Jews and Israel is the fear of Islam that's burned in European hearts for about a thousand years.

There's a long, ongoing conflict between a handful of Jews in a tiny sliver of the Middle East and Muslims. The Muslims would seem to be extremely violent, bloodthirsty, genocidal, suicidal, and relentless in their quest to wipe out all non-Muslims. If the other billion Muslims are really like that then we're all screwed.

It's extremely frightening for Europeans to think about, because Muslims very quickly conquered almost the entirety of the classical Christian world, big hunks of central Asia, parts of Southeast Asia, the civilizations spread across north Africa, Spain, southeastern Europe, and got all the way into France. Millions and millions of Christians, Jews, Hindus, Zoroastrians, and Buddhists were slaughtered, often en mass executions that were far larger than anything ISIS has yet accomplished.

It's far, far more psychological comfortable to think that the Palestinians are not at all representative of Islam, and that their fundamentalist fervor and genocidal bloodlust are instead the result of some kind of horrendous Jewish atrocities (even though Jews are famous for not hurting anyone, anywhere, instead preferring to go into medicine, law, math, physics, and comedy). So either a tiny handful of Jews are incredibly evil, or a billion Muslims are probably going to take over Europe through mass slaughter, subjugation, and rape. To many Europeans reach for the comforting answer - evil Jews.

For those bathed in political correctness and cultural relativism, is much easier to think that Jews are the aberrant outliers, not just one of countless peoples who've been faced with Muslim fanaticism founded on the belief that Muslims must rule over or slaughter all other peoples.

This psychological hostage response was suggested by a physicist who loves studying religion.



A bit long, but he has really good maps of Muslim expansion over time.

^ People who want to justify their anti-Arab prejudice often come out with the old 'clash of civilisations' rhetoric.

So Turkey's recent parliamentary vote wasn't real, newspapers just made it all up.

Erdogan got 47 percent of the vote in 2007 and close to 50 percent in 2011, From that he manages to pull together a slim ruling coalition. Countries around the region were told to "learn the lessons that Turkey has learned and is putting into practice every single day" - by Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. Obama also strongly backs and praises their democracy.

Sure, they are a abusive of executive overreach, dismissive of the courts, and at times act like a fundamentalist Muslim dictatorship, but hopefully a Republican victory in 2016 will get us past all that.

No, it's clear that Palestinians target civilians. They have conducted thousands of bombings. Just in the past weeks they've conducted over a hundred stabbing attacks. A whole lot of them get shot and killed during these attacks, whereas several elderly Israeli shoppers are often wounded during each incident, so the death toll keeps favoring Israel - while each and every attack is initiated by Palestinians. Palestinians even commit attacks all through Europe. When was the last time Europe saw a Jewish terrorist attack?

And why would anyone pointing out Muslim atrocities have an anti-Arab prejudice? It was the Arabs who were conquered and subjugated first, and America has almost 2 million Arabs who fled Muslim oppression.

So faced with direct quotes that the working definition does not include the word democracy your response is to double down on your lies and then ignore the fact that democratic Turkey is occupying northern Cyprus? You are such a cowardly liar.

I don't think that has ever been in doubt. But the term "democracy" is not a precise term. Not every democracy is a copy of the U.S. or Canada. In Turkey, the military has traditionally been considered the guardians against extremists from either side taking over thus their version of "democracy" entrusts a far, far greater role in government for the military than anyone in the U.S. would ever envision.

Mohammed was ahead of his time (further proving the divine genius of Islam) - he knew it's statistically safer to fly a horse versus ride one. He was right too - when was the last time a flying horse nose-dived into the ocean? That's what I thought, you fucking infidel bitches.

Wait a minute. You think this is anti-semitic in itself, regardless of whether or not it is true?

Fuck you.

Yes, like saying that Jews drink the blood of Christians. If Israel wanted to kill Palestinian civilians, they could wipe out their entire population in about three days.

It is demonstratably untrue, as you well know, and judged by the evidence I have provided of the extraordinary steps the IDF, well above and beyond what any other nation does, to avoid civilian casualties where ever possible. That you ignore all that and continue fabricating lies and defamations about the Jewish people is the very definition of antisemetism.

Rick, without question you are an anti semetic bigot. The sooner you come to terms with that reality the better off you will be.

I wonder if Rick is one of those that considers Northern Ireland to be an occupying army?

Hmmm, why would leaders of nations sign treaties against assassinating leaders of nations? Somehow, I can't think of a single motive ...

Pathetic. No one is fooled by this nonsense.

@Dinner Post 429 (and none of this bullshit about not been able to see post numbers please ), let's have a substantive response to it.
Even @gturner has managed it (I'll reply to you later).

I assume you mean the British army in Northern Ireland. One might have argued the point a few years ago, but they are not.

I agree that it's not as clear cut as inútil implies, but there is a significant difference between the Turks in Cyprus and the Israelis in the West Bank. Cyprus is an example of a civil war with an external intervention on behalf of one party. The Turks are there, but only in the ethnically Turkish section. When they start occupying Greek portions of the island, you will have a stronger argument for equivalence.

In fairness, I pointed out that in that case there was another power intervening on behalf of a separatist movement (and this is true with the other examples he gave), and I also asked him to explain why he thinks those situations are analogous to Israel/Palestine; in addition, I pointed to a situation that I think is analogous to Israel/Palestine. Dinner of course chose to completely ignore that.

1) Elections don't mean a country is a democracy; they are a necessary but not sufficient element. Iran has elections, East Germany had elections, Saudi Arabia(!) is preparing to hold elections.

2) Does all your knowledge about Turkey come from statements by American politicians? If you think Turkey is a democracy, then you should take it up with the publishers of the International Democracy Index; but perhaps they had in mind the various military coups, the denial of basic civil rights to, political repression of and continuing violence toward the Kurdish population, the murderous campaign against the Kurds that wiped out over 3,000 of their villages, the imprisonment of journalists and other critics of the government, the violence against peaceful protesters, and so on, rather than blandishments from Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton, when making their assessment.

Well here you are once again confusing individuals with the state. There are documented cases of Jewish settlers murdering Palestinians, so clearly, using your standard, the Israelis target civilians. I was talking about states, however, and I stand by what I said about Israel's actions.

If Turkey isn't a democracy, why does Europe let it be an associate EU member and why do they let it stay in NATO? Why don't they make Turkey put special labels on products that come from former Kurdish villages? Why do they refer to the occupation of northern Cyprus as an internal matter? Why don't they single Turkey out for treatment as if it was full of evil Jews? Why don't they note that Turkey is Byzantium and under military occupation by invading Muslims?

The EU won't recognize borders that changed in a war in the 1960's and screams that they're illegal, but they will recognize borders that changed in a war in the 1970's. Why is that?