Propose Solutions to Avert Spree Killings Here

I decided to make another thread in the hopes of focusing discussion a little more tightly.

Everyone obviously wants to avoid more massacres like Friday's if possible.

The question is how.

What pieces of the puzzle are out there that can reasonably be implemented?

Gunforge: are there any gun control measures at all that would be both useful and acceptable?

We keep talking about mental health issues being addressed more, but in what fashion?

Are there things that law enforcement/security guards can reasonably do without turning things into armed camps or turning the country into more of a surveillance state than it already is?

What is the role of government here versus private citizens versus corporations and charities? A lot of people in the other thread seem concerned that additional government intervention might move us more toward Nanny State America. If so, what do you envision private parties can do to prevent these tragedies from happening?

Or is the bottom line that in a nation of 350 million with the freedoms and problems we have, it's just fundamentally inevitable that every so often someone will shoot up a school, a movie theater, or a political event? And the only thing we can really do is figure out what to do in the aftermath of such situations?

Maybe there is no solution, so we have to do like The Amish when they have a school massacre - just forgive everyone and let it roll off our backs. That may not work on a grand scale, however.

As always, people are the problem, not the availability of weapons. Yet I'll address the availability issue from a pragmatic perspective, simply put, you can't put the genie back in the bottle. The right to bear arms is deeply ingrained in our culture and any so called solution needs to understand that reality.

Now on to the real problem. People. Murder is almost universally frowned upon, has been since, well forever. Yet not a day goes by without one of us killing another. Heck not a day goes by without one nation being at war with another.

And let's be honest, a great number of folks were killed long before gunpowder was discovered. And IIRC the Rwandan genocide (1994) consisted of over 800,000 deaths, most caused by pitchforks and machetes.

So instead of wasting time lamenting an evil tool let's fess up. As a species we are a murderous lot.

Okay, I'll honestly throw this out here regarding "Assault Weapons" for lack of a better term. The ONLY practical thing IMHO that makes an Assault Weapon an Assault weapon is magazine capacity. That's it. It's not pistol grips, it's not heat shields, Bayonet lugs, it's not collapsable stocks, and it's definately not, "OMG! IT LOOKS LIKE WHAT THE MILITARY USES!!!111!!!" If Gun Control Groups were serious about this, that's the ONLY thing they would be talking about getting more strict about with regards to the hardware its self.

I'm just sayin'.

The problem is, for every AR out there, there are probably over 200 30 round magazines, so I don't know how useful that would be. As far as "acceptable" goes...Meh. Personally, I usually only fire five, and no more than ten rounds at a time at the range...I was taught to be accurate...not fast. I guess the "Principle" is the sticking point. You know...slippery slope and all that.

As far as access goes. a few things. First of all, how about sort of a PR campaign? Take some of the stuff that "gun nuts" take for granted and put it out for general consumption. Don't let children near them without supervision...oh and BTW, if they're freaking crazy, don't let them near them at all...in fact, if you have crazy children, maybe you should re-think gun ownership period. Don't go near any firearms if you've been drinking or eating vicoden. Don't tell your neighbors where you keep your stuff locked up. Hell "Eddie The Eagle" covers most of the stuff when it comes to children...but Noooooo. We can't have anything affiliated with the NRA in schools!

Another thing we could address is straw purchases. If not through legislation, why not some kind of trade group? A hypothetical "Association of Responsible Gun Sellers". that comes up with industry standards. One of which would be, "don't sell more than X amount of guns to one person over Y amount of time or we'll take our ARGS sticker back."

Is there already something like that? I don't know.

Another thing I've already brought up. We already know that conficted felons, certified crazy people and people with a restraining order aren't allowed to have guns, but what about other people who live under the same roof as them? How does that work?

I'm all for private gun ownership, but you Americans seriously need to impose limits on capacity. Say, nothing more than a half-dozen rounds. Anyone with decent firearms training wouldn't need more than that for close quarters "self defense" anyway.

But it's in the Constitution (praise be thy name)! It's mah gawddamn RIGHT to have 30-round magazines!

SIX rounds?!? That's crazy talk.

Okay, maybe 7 rounds.

I do like the M1911.

Aw Hell no. The '94 ban limited it to ten rounds.

...and I've got 8 round mags for my 1911...which, BTW isn't an Assault Weapon by ANY stretch of the imagination.

That's a fantastic idea, actually. With so many millions upon millions of guns in this country, it sure would be great if it weren't just gun owners who know about them.

I KNOW....right?



Wait a minute. Why's WAB laughing? Was that sarcasm?

Be more specific please - define "needing six rounds"....six rounds at a time in any weapon? On their person such as in their pocket? In their home?

If you mean six round magazines per clip/magazine but you have more six round clips readily available for fast reloading, that's sensible. If you mean six is all you get per incident of self defense, you just screwed yourself.

Let's say two armed guys bust thru the door or otherwise force their way in during a "home invasion" robbery. You don't have all day to aim at what will most assuredly be moving, sparated targets, at least after they see or hear a weapon returning fire.

I don't care how good/fast a shot you are. You get that tunnel-vision adrenaline going, good luck with only six rounds.

The Swiss have 50 rounds IIRC.

There's got to be some mental health competency test to ownership surely. Although I admit that wouldn't have worked here, or with inherited guns.

Seriously Talkahuano. Were you being sarcastic? Because if you disagree, I'd like to discuss it.

Obliterate free will.

How about we stop letting welfare be about letting someone have 10 kids to get money out of the state and make it about the people who can't take care of themselves. The mentally ill need to be looked after and treated, not put in a corner and ignored. Hospitals need to be re-opened to take care of those that are ruled to not be able to take care of themselves.

My understanding is that the more kids thing = more money is largely a myth. TANF (welfare) doesn't work that way. Only if the child is disabled will the mother get more money.

Agreed.

We should also get more psychiatric treatment in our Justice System. My friend used to be a counselor at a Drug Rehab facility, but when the crisis hit, Florida cut their mental health budget in half and her position was eliminated.

I keep hearing statements like this. If it has actually come to the point in the States that people deemed unable to function correctly in society without being a danger to themselves and others cannot be committed to institutions that will take care of them, then that is a major part of the problem right there.

Actually, the Swiss removed ALL ammunition from civilans for the military weapons they deployed as part of the militia in 2007. You have to go to a depot to get one if they call up the militia.

Weapons, no ammo.

- If you've had a felony conviction, no guns for you
- If you've had a non-felony but still violent crime conviction, no guns for you
- If you've ever been found not guilty due to reason of insanity, no guns for you
- If you are on any sort of medication for depression, anxiety, psychosis, etc... no guns for you.
- If you've ever had a restraining order against you...no guns for you without a THOROUGH review (because I can totally see a jealous-ex-seeking-revenge-by-aggravation scenario in there).
- Only those with significant training get Concealed-Carry permits. Military and LE community members easily pass this requirement. Anyone else needs to take a damn-tough, long-term class to demonstrate proficiency with a firearm as well as sound situational judgement.
- There must be a national database to handle all of this. That way Gun Owners and CC permit holders who were fine at one point, but somehow over time fall into one of the above categories can be tracked, and their weapons held for them until such time as they are OK again.

Wouldn't that run the risk of hackers finding out who is armed and who isn't, in order to know who the "safe" targets are?

The obvious solution is to pump aerosol [-]PAX[/-] THC into the air supply.

And it would stimulate the Qwik-E mart economy. Genius!

Not to mention targeting known gun owners to make it easier to break in when no one is home and steal their guns for use in illegal activities.

Who needs hacking? It's called the Freedom of Information Act. A few years ago, The Commercial Appeal in Memphis posted a list of names of every single CCW holder in Shelby County, mine included, on their website.

I propose the Call of Duty Method. I can never get the cool strikes called in, because someone always kills me before my sprees really get going when I'm on xBox live.

It's a combination of factors. Who does such things? You do not go out and simply kill people because guns are around. Also, when you're dead set on going out in a blaze of glory, you probably will anyway - in Rwanda they didn't need any to kill a million people. Of course the availability of guns makes the 'job' easier and the body count a lot higher.

My best guess is that these things happen because of two factors: there are always signs. Yet nobody listens. The parents are too busy earning a living to look after their child. Additionally, they often don't understand the modern ways of their kids communicating their problems. A threat on Facebook saying 'I'm gonna kill them all!' earns twenty LOLs and a few Likes, but nobody cares. The second factor is IMHO a loss of perspective. Humanity as a whole has lost its vision and all a lot of young people can look forward to is a life of work, work and more work for just enough money to barely scrape by. In decades past you could make a humble fortune by working hard. Today you work hard and get squeezed like a lemon to pay the interest on the myriad of loans with whatever our parents could save up. Of course, you do need the latest iPhone with a killer contract... a 20-euro-Nokia with a prepaid card is just not good enough. So the combination of consumerism, low wages and dwindling social permeability kills all perspective for a better future.

As for solutions... listen. Understand. Act. And if you have to have a fucking arsenal at home, lock it away.

I totally agree and I don't know why it came out as a disagrees on my rep.

edit: Thanks Ramen!! I did not know that.

Legalize pot and prostitution, make blowjobs and bong hits the prescription for twitchy people.

Nice and tidy.

Exactly.

Sometimes bad/disturbed people do bad things and there is virtually nothing you can do beyond what's already been done to make a significant difference.


It's not the guns, or the culture, or any other "pet" problem - it's people.

I'm in favor of better mental health care and if i HAD to propose a "solution" it would be working to decrease the stigma associated with admitting someone has a mental health problem but ultimately, these things will still happen.


Also...regardingthe claim that this sort of thing is getting worse:

http://reason.com/blog/2012/12/17/are-mass-shootings-becoming-more-common