So when are we gonna just admit that Trumpism is based on Racism?

except when their rights conflict with your wants... then fuck those oppressive assholes.

Nope.

Canada succeeds because we need something to drizzle on bacon and Americans consider sticking faucets into trees beneath them.

I dunno... I think only half of us live in cities.
We've got entire area codes full of towns populated by people who are still there despite the lack of prospects.

What's truly surprising is how the country hasn't collapsed economically from the housing bubble alone...

Sounds great in theory, until you get libertarians claiming that being asked to cover their mouth to avoid sneezing on you is a violation of their rights. Or that being restricted from dumping toxic waste directly into their neighbors drinking water is a violation of their own rights.

Me personally, I don’t like mask mandates or vaccine mandates, but I wear a mask where required and got vaccinated so I consider that being personally responsible for myself. Anyone who haven’t gotten vaccinated or don’t wear masks and end up dying of Covid, whelp, they made their bed, now they get to lay in it. I don’t see how that affects your rights if you are vaccinated and wear a mask.

Of course you don't, despite it being explained countless times that no vaccination is 100% effective and that wearing a mask protects other people from you more than it protects you from others.

But to break it down, someone disregarding the basic covid protective measures leaves strangers in the position of either accepting increased endanger (thus inflicting harm) or isolating themselves to stay safe (depriving them of their rights.)

Imagine if I went downtown tomorrow and started shooting arrows at random targets I set up, then told people to just stay away from downtown if they didn't feel safe.

You don't see how unvaxed, anti maskers are spreading a virus that has already killed millions to more people?

And that they can help stop the spread with just the tiniest amount of effort?

Or that they're the main reason we're seeing these variants pop up?

Man.....

Okay so cower in your apartment for the rest of your life then. You can’t round up people and force them to get vaccinated.

Covid really killed my belief in the value of libertarianism. I still don't want governments creating any more regulation than they can convincingly argue is necessary, but in many situations that require everyone to comply with some instruction for the safety or wellbeing of the group, libertarianism is unwilling and incapable of ensuring that happens.

PM me your address so I can show up bright and early tomorrow morning for my bow and arrow practice.

Why not? Maybe we can ride them like ponies too

Libertarians are full of shit anyways. The American ones are literally living right above a Libertarian Paradise in Mexico yet for some reason won't go and live down there

You’re right, we can also force women to carry babies to full term.

How about we allow unvaxxed and unmasked people to go wherever they please, but also the properly masked and vaxxed people are allowed to shoot them to death if they have a reasonable fear they're about to come within two meters of them? It's justifiable self defense, stay home if you don't want to get shot.

Who are the bunch of posters here that you believe endorsed that school of thought?

Because no measure is 100% effective. If we had a good vaccine uptake rate, this damn thing would be over. Because we don't, people are still getting sick, even people who did do the responsible thing. They get sick in much smaller numbers, but refusing to get vaccinated or wear a mask is not something that only affects the person doing it.

I mean pretty much, yeah. This is just about exactly what old libertarian analyses of Typhoid Mary came up with, that the government was completely justified in keeping her under house arrest, just writ larger in this case. And back then they couldn't even tell for certain that she was infected, just that there was enough evidence that she was the source of the outbreaks.

This definitely illustrates a problem certain libertarians (I won't say libertarianism, because I'm confident there's a reasonable modification that can be made for probabilistic harms that's still consistent with it generally, if such a thing hasn't been developed already, not like any of y'all have checked) have with difficult-to-directly-perceive or probabilistic dangers. Everything must be black or white. And this is exploited: there are a lot of "libertarians" who think that if the blame is too diffuse by probability that means there is no accountability that can be assigned. They use that as a justification for dumping negative externalities on the rest of us. They should be ashamed of themselves.

House arrest should absolutely be an alternative to vaccination and masking then; or rather, vaccination and masking should be an alternative to house arrest, since the last preceded the first two.

EDIT: I don't think shooting is justifiable here on the grounds that it would probably send more virus into the air. But maybe choking to unconsciousness, and certainly calling the police to have them arrested.

Who is telling people those things? And why is that worse than overt racism and fascism?

And please try to respond without reference to anti-semitic conspiracy theories like cUlTuRaL mArXiSm

Who is asking you to take responsibility for a problem you did not cause?

Who is asking anyone to feel bad? I'm really confused by this post.

So taking personal responsibility for the continued suffering of others?

Yes, I came to this realization when I gave up libertarianism as an unfathomably selfish and broken ideology when I was 20. Are you still living in that fantasy?

Exactly. Every libertarian should be pro-vax, because failing to get vaccinated when you have no medical reason to do so is a conscious choice to threaten the lives of others.

Oh so you would prefer to put others in danger and are therefore not an actual libertarian?

Agreed.

Can you elaborate on that?

I may have misunderstood you, and I apologize if that's the case. I agree that people who choose not to mask or vaccinate have to face those consequences. But they aren't only affecting themselves.

The measures you described (mandatory masking and vaccinations) ensure the safety of everyone. Failing to do those things is making a conscious choice to put others at risk of grievous bodily harm or death.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't libertarianism boil down to "my rights end where others' begin"? Mask mandates and vaccine mandates seem like a fully libertarian position in the same way that various forms of battery, assault, and homicide are illegal.

Not to mention the orphans that anti-vaxxers are leaving, combined with a hospital focusing on trying to save an anti-vaxxer instead of other patients. The anti-vaxxers don't just harm themselves, they harm the society they live in too.

funny how you talk about merit and accountability, but then come up with shit like if you benefit from those past wrongs you have no liability to their redress. If anything sounds self serving...

He's flunked biology twice but maybe they'll cover that in summer school