The Death of Ahmaud Arbery

I'm very surprised that there's no thread on this yet.

https://news.yahoo.com/outrage-mounts-cell-phone-footage-002345499.html

I don't really see any way that this isn't flat out murder, based on all the available information so far.

I agree, the key phrase being however: "...based on all the available information so far."

Once again, it is important to wait for the facts. Otherwise, this is how lynchings happen.

This looks pretty bad

Interesting to note that it looks like Gregory McMichael lied to the cops and said Arbery attacked them when the video appears to contradict that

I was actually trying to cool off before addressing this. I am going to need some more time before I can fully express my disgust without finding the nearest racist and ripping his balls off.

OF will be along any minute to offer witty aphorisms. I'd suggest starting with him.

Totally agree! Matter-of-fact this being a Georgia story it's a pretty hot item in my neck of the woods. It was actually though pretty much a very local story...until that HOLY SHIT video came out. Where to begin? Here are my takeaways on the murder:

1) the guy was running away probably looking for cover to protect himself from getting shot (duh)
2) he was unarmed at the time he was shot. If he was still armed he would have tried to shoot the guy who was holding the shotgun
3) why would anybody who is outnumbered and likely fatigued from running try to attack a group of men pursuing them?
4) let's say he was a burglar or non-violent criminal - you can't shoot somebody unless they are an imminent threat to life & limb.
If you have to be in a vehicle to chase somebody who is ON FOOT the threat has been downgraded - mission accomplished
5) the older guy was a RETIRED COP who should be well-versed in how the law works
6) yes the video shows the shooting victim trying to get control of the shooter's shotgun. What else could he do? He had nowhere to hide and these guys
didn't give him the option of surrendering at that point. He was in a desperate fight for his life
7) why wasn't the video released IMMEDIATELY? It's not like there was an investigation already being conducted - no charges were filed!
8) I hope the victim's family members sue the ever loving dog shit out of the shooter(s) and/or put them behind bars to the maximum extent
of the law

fuck you...die in a fire shit bag....witty enough?

It's murder.

Two guys chase a jogger, Ahmaud Arbery, down the street in their truck because they think he's a criminal.

They manage to stop him and the driver gets out with a shotgun. Now the jogger isn't a criminal. He's just jogging. At that point he has two options: flee and hope he doesn't get shot in the back OR self-defense. He attacks in self-defense but sadly is still shot and killed. SHOT TWICE. With a shotgun and unless that shotgun was a semi automatic that means the driver had to rack another round.

And what I wrote in the above sentence is based on what the guy with the shotgun told police.

The guy with the shotgun told police that Arbery attacked him as he got out of the truck. Even if true Arbery is still justified in attacking. He's an innocent man whose just been accosted by two armed men. He's in fear for his life. He could have used deadly force to defend himself if had had that option.

If you go with what the video allegedly shows (I haven't seen it yet) than it's more clear that Arbery is still justified in attacking because they shot at him first. He's still just a man jogging down the street being accosted by two armed assholes. He doesn't know what they are doing but he's in justified fear of deadly force about to be used against him since they just shot at him and he has the right to self defense.

Both people who chased Arbery should be jailed for murder.

I'm gonna throw Trayvon Martin out at this point and see why that's somehow different.

And yes I'll say it: This is a good reason to carry a gun. Arbery may have still been shot and killed but he may have had a better chance of surviving if he couldn't flee and was forced to stand his ground.

How long ago did he retire?

Well that didn't take long. We've gone over this a billion times. The fact that you wish to remain ignorant to it doesn't change the fact that Zimmerman was in the right.

Sure would have looked better on video if those guys were shooting at a fleeing .... *fill in the blank* who was shooting at them. Of course he was completely outgunned anyway, but never mind...

The start of the first incident:

#1 Zimmerman didn't get out of his car until Martin had run off. Zimmerman had called the police and was providing information.
#2 Zimmerman followed for a few dozen feet, stopped, and was having a conversation with 911 Sanford Police Department's non-Emergency number for almost a minute.
#3 Martin who had run off out of Zimmerman's sight was also on a phone having a conversation for almost a minute.

That means the incident was over. Zimmerman's call clearly indicates he has no idea of where Martin has run off too. Zimmerman is not chasing Martin. Zimmerman doesn't have his gun out. Zimmerman is on the phone talking to 911 Sanford Police Department's non-Emergency number.

The start of the second incident starts now:

#4 Martin runs back to Zimmerman and attacks Zimmerman. This is what Martin supporters gloss over. If Zimmerman had chased Martin then the fight would have been closer to Martin's house. Instead the fight was close to where Zimmerman was parked which means Martin who ran off and had a cell phone conversation had to make the decision to turn around and come back to Zimmerman's location.
#5 Zimmerman believes his life is in danger as Martin is beating him in the head and he shoots Martin.

Did any of that happen in the Arbery case?

No. So yeah it's totally different.

Well, these guys ran down Ahmaud Arbery in a vehicle with guns brandished from the start.

By contrast, George Zimmerman spotted Travyon Martin from a distance, called the cops, followed him for a minute while on the phone with the cops then stopped when the cops told him they didn't need him following him, lost sight of him, and then got ambushed and sucker-punched after Trayvon Martin doubled back to re-initiate the conflict.

I understand fully that that sequence of events is (mostly but not all) from George Zimmerman's version of events and therefore you may choose not to believe it. That's fine. But there exists no evidence at all to contradict any of it.

Just going by Zombie's statement:

Now the jogger isn't a criminal. He's just jogging. At that point he has two options: flee and hope he doesn't get shot in the back OR self-defense. He attacks in self-defense but sadly is still shot and killed.

Martin wasn't a criminal. He was out to the store. Zimmerman pursued him with a gun because he thought he was shady.

Martin had the same two options Arbery did.

Your issue is you take the case from Zimmerman's perspective. If Arbery had beaten these twats down and THEN been shot, you'd be singing the same tune you do about Trayvon. Scary black man.

Correction: Zimmerman didn't call 911, he called the Sanford Police Department's non-Emergency number.

The video clearly indicates that Arbery was shot at first.

Second, Arbery has the legal right to be out jogging.
Third, Arbery has the legal right to self defense.
Fourth, the two assholes even under Gerogia's citzen's arrest law have no legal right to stop him because they haven't seen him commit a crime and they certainly have no right to use deadly force.
Fifth, Arbery is justified at that point in using deadly force to defend himself. Even under Georgia law.

Him having a gun may have enabled him to defend himself better. Sure he may have been outgunned but he was outgunned without him having a gun and he had to go hands on against two armed assholes.

All I'm saying is his chances would have been better if he had been carrying.

Why don’t you show me where I said that about Trayvon Martin, I’ll wait.

Can we take the zimmerman shit to another thread because it is an entirely different situation and set of circumstances.

This has video of the incident that we can see and we do not have to rely on zimmerman's account of what happened.

We are all in agreement here that this was an awful attack and the people who shot that man should be punished to the fullest extent of the law.

Zimmerman did the exact opposite of what these killers did.

Zimmerman called the police. Zimmerman waited in his car. Zimmerman never got out of his car until Martin had run off. Zimmerman did not chase Martin. Zimmerman didn't get out of the car with gun in hand. Zimmerman never had the gun out at all until after Martin had attacked him and Zimmerman didn't lie to the police. In fact one of the strongest parts of Zimmerman's testimony is that it never changes and it matches the physical evidence.

If Zimmerman had pulled up on Martin and immediately jumped out of his vehicle, gun in hand, than Martin would certainly have been justified in attacking him in self defense.

But that didn't happen. The case proved that for the world to see.

Stop trying to turn this into a racial issue to attack people on the board you leftist cunt.

And... I'm there. Cheers guys.

*lights cigarette*

Well, I for one am glad that we were able to get THAT misunderstanding squared away, and now we can move on from this George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin discussion.

Right?

There was also a much better chance that bystanders (innocent or not) like the person who took the video, might have been killed too. If things ever get to the point where I've got to pack a gun to feel safe jogging...well...fuck....

Trayvon had a chance to run to a safe location (his home) which was only a couple of blocks away. Worst case if he truly felt threatened he could have ran to the nearest homes and started pounding on doors and yelling for help. Trayvon was thinner and younger - no way Zimmerman could have caught him before he made it to shelter. Trayvon was aware that the "creepy white guy" was following him because he told his friend this in a phone conversation. Trayvon still decided to confront Zimmerman - but that part cannot be proven.

Arbery had no chance to escape a vehicle and two (maybe three) people pursuing him, and there were no nearby homes to run to for help. Arbery had zero options but to confront his attackers.

I'm not sure. I heard about the story on a local news station. Also this article says he was a former cop...former may not mean retired but they don't get into the details. I think the older suspect (the father of course) was 64 years old. Regardless, the law hasn't changed that much since he was a cop - I wonder if the guy did shit like this as a cop?

"Ahmaud Arbery, 25, was jogging in a neighborhood outside Brunswick on February 23 when a former police officer and his son chased him down, authorities said. According to a Glynn County Police report, Gregory McMichael later told officers that he thought Arbery looked like a person suspected in a series of recent break-ins in the area."

HOLY SHIT well now it makes sense! He "looked like" somebody! What are the odds that there is more than one black male in Brunswick Georgia? Gotta be a million to one!

You gotta wonder....same as age as me...close enough anyway. I know things were bad 50 years ago in my hometown in the Florida Panhandle but I don't remember them being that bad.

While I agree with you that this was murder, I think you're wrong that he should have been carrying a gun while jogging. If he had a gun on him, this would have been more easily considered a "justified" killing.

Also, I'm not really surprised by this lynching. Jim Crow sentiments never really went away in this country, especially the South. We are becoming increasingly aware of the degree of lynchings of black people by both law enforcement and now regular citizens, thanks in large part due to nearly everyone having smart phones on them.

I'm all for not rushing to judgement and letting info come out as well, but it's been three months and we have video showing a cold blooded killing. An arrest at the very least is warranted here.

Why the fuck should someone need a gun on them when they go jogging?