Unconstitutional? So what, we're doing it anyways.

How perceptive, Jenee. There is no point in registering firearms.

I don't think we're talking about gun registration. Most states don't have gun registration. Elwood is talking about paper trails from the FFL dealer who sold the gun, to the current owner of the gun via bills of sale.

Maybe....but the article specifically mentioned the straw man sale aspect.

Pennsylvania passed a law in 1974 that says only the state, not towns, can regulate guns.

That's why this is unconstitutional in the state.

Also, the fact that this thread has devolved into a Jenee thread sucks. I can't stand the level of sheer stupidity that woman spews.

from what several posters have said, it is unconstitutional because it is something the state says the city is not allowed to do.
and it's stupid because, as i said, any intelligent gun owner will let the cops know when their weapons are mia.

Illegal, unenforceable, and unneeded.

if they wanted to make a statement they could have passed a resolution instead.

I think the PA constitution states "sale, transportation, transfer" of guns. Unless you consider "theft or loss" as transfer then it's perfectly constitutional within the State of PA. I'm sure it'll be challenged in court, I'm not so sure it will be struck down.

The question about whether it's a silly law is moot. Filing off the serial # and acquiring the gun casually render the law useless.

The question is really: why wouldn't gun owners want to report their lost or stolen firearms? Doesn't this protect them in the event it's used in the commission of a crime? Wouldn't this information benefit the investigation of crime at least in reducing legwork? "The gun was reported stolen," end of story.

Where it may be effective is limiting the business of purchasing guns to resell to criminals. If the "legitimate" buyer doesn't report the gun stolen, he's liable for fines (I suppose in the event it's recovered after a crime). If he reports it as stolen when really it's been sold to someone unable to purchase it themselves, it'll be pretty obvious after the 3rd or 4th gun reported in a month. Either way it puts a damper on this path for guns to hit the street.

What's wrong with this?

First of all, the only people suggesting that gun owners would be against reporting stolen or lost guns are the pro-gun controlers here. Gun owners in this thread have said, more than once I believe, that people SHOULD report their guns lost or stolen...but that they shouldn't be FORCED to by law.

As for the "why not" part, Elwood has already pointed it out. To a lot of gun owners, any new gun law that doesn't pertain to criminals exclusively is a "slippery slope" situation. As Elwood said...we've been giving an inch and they've been taking a mile ever since the 1930's. It's why the words "reasonable gun control" makes us want to choke somebody. Gun control advocates wonder why we're so stubborn. "Why wouldn't you want to do this?" "Why won't you compromise?"

The reason we don't compromise is because in order to compromise, there generally has to be a level playing field. Gun control people seem to believe that every time gun owners compromise, and new restrictions are enacted, that there is a brand new status quo, and start asking for more "compromise". Eventually, the other side is going to see where all this compromising is leading, and then dig in their heals. Not necessarily because they believe a new law is a bad idea in and of its self, but because they've seen the pattern that could ultimately lead to compromising away "all" their rights.

Anyway, that's why we come across as being stubborn about even the most "common of sense" gun laws.

you got some compromising to do....

Ok. That makes sense. I was under the impression everyone had to apply to own a gun and had to register it.

I guess what I'm not seeing is the reason for the law. If everyone immediately reports a gun lost or stolen, then why is there a need for the law?

Because guns are bought legitimately from dealers and sold on the gray market to end users that are prohibited from owning guns (probably because they are convicted criminals). So called "strawman sales" (strange term). If the guns sold this way are used in crimes the purchaser says they were "stolen". If they now have to pay a fine, then it's a disincentive for the sale of guns on the gray market.

Why legit gun owners have a problem with this I don't know (slippery slope is a tired argument). I can see why gun dealers don't like it (both ligit and gray).

The fact is, the bulk of people do report guns stolen as soon as they realize they're stolen. There is no need for this law. It's just a bunch of goons trying to look like they're doing something.

Or do you think that every law presented to legislative bodies is presented as a need?

Not in most states.

Like I said...it's an attempt to close off staw man purchases as a source of black market firearms. They're forcing law abiding gun owners to report their guns lost or stolen, in order to "flush out" illegal, straw man purchases.

Straw man purchases are where you have one person who can legally purchase a firearm, who buys a gun with the intent on selling it to someone who they know cannot legally purchase a firearm. It's a way for a known felon to bypass the NCIC background check required to purchase a firearm....and it's illegal as hell. If the gun is used in a crime, the paper trail will end at the straw man purchaser...who can just say that he or she lost it or it was stolen when the cops come knocking on his or her door.

I told you why. If you don't like the answer, then that's your problem...but don't go around saying that you still "don't know" when you do know.

Ok, now it's making sense. Thank you for explaining that.

So, as gun owners don't like this law and think it should not be one, what measure do you think should be taken to prevent prevent guns from getting into the wrong hands? Because, we've had this discussion before about how criminals and gang-bangers and such shouldn't be allowed to have guns and that there are already laws on the books preventing them from getting their hands on guns and that those laws need to be enforced - not create new ones.

Jenee, how would this law have prevented guns from getting into the wrong hands? When a gun is stolen, it's already in the wrong hands.

D'UR!!!

Answer the question, since you interjected yourself into the conversation. How would a law requiring stolen guns to be reported prevent the guns from getting into the wrong hands?

Some people don't report them stolen right away. Some people sell em then lie and say it was stolen.

No kidding. How is this law going to change that?

My opinion is 'so what, why does it bother ya'll so much?'

We're never going to be able to prevent guns from getting into the wrong hands...just like we're never going to be able to prevent illegal drugs from getting into the "wrong" hands. Forcing law abiding citizens to jump through more and more hoops isn't going to change that.

In my opinion, enforcing the current gun laws is only the first step. Another, much more important ste IMHO, is to address the roots of crime its self. Stuff like poverty, lack of education, desparation, hopelessness, the war on drugs, etc.

I strongly believe that if we can get a handle on even a few of those things, we would see a serious drop not only in gun crime, but crime in general.

I don't see any jumping through hoops. What do you mean? Its almost no change for the law abiding folks. Business as usual.

As far as reporting stolen or missing guns is concerned, you're right. That goes back to the "slippery slope" thing that's already been mentioned over and over already in this thread.

I completely agree about 'attacking' the source and not the symptoms.

However, as far as this law in particular is concerned, is the 'law abiding' citizen that sells a gun to someone who shouldn't have one - then later, when a crime has been committed, says 'that gun was stolen, I didn't sell it', no longer a 'law abiding' citizen?

Should a responsible gun owner's responsibilities extend to ensuring that the gun he is selling is going to another responsible gun owner?

Fuck a slippery slope and stop ya dang

Hew, Mewa - sit on a stolen gun and twirl.

Just make sure you reported that danged gun stolen. Got it?!

It wouldn't be mine. Though hopefully if you stole a weapon, it would be one of my Mausers and you wouldn't notice the bayonet.